I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. Click on a component to learn more. It doesn't feel good. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. Thanks! I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. Really? 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. Didn't think I'd ever see that. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? Going the right direction in weight reduction. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. Just kidding! If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. As they say, power is nothing without control. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. oooof! Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Wowzers! I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. Posted Oct 21, 2020. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. Gear or similar. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. A downside of the 2.2 motor is that it is noticeably draggy above the 25km/h cutoff though something we experienced during back-to-back between the Levo and Canyon Spectral:ON. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? February 22, 2021. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. Shimano says it provides up to 350-percent support (in Boost mode versus the E8000's 300 percent). 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. It also depends on the bike too. Sources at numerous ebike suppliers have told Cycle Volta this week that releases of new EP8-equipped electric mountain bikes are being held up, on Shimano's direction. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. I have this motor. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. So far so good. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. The Levo SL? Stab happy!". An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. JavaScript is disabled. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. Chuckle. Otherwise I do not care. - Tuning options are simple and effective Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. Yeah, that's pretty poor! The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. - High quality display & controller Ive only charged 2x. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. Truly unfortunate you lost it. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. This is a real review with details and pros and cons. That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. Theres still a whirring noise from the metallic gears inside, and the pitch increases slightly at higher cadences. Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. Lapierre e-zesty. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. 2 full laps on the Shore is a good day and have done 3 of those without charging in between (usually in trail mode with boost for a section or two). Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Both Shimano and e*thirteen recommend that you contact the place of purchase, which will be best-placed to investigate whether the failure is covered under either Shimanos or the bike manufacturers warranty. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? Absolutely. Nothing like on an ebike. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. Still, the performance in the adaptive E-MTB mode is excellent, with smooth and flexible power delivery, and riders wanting plenty of grunt will certainly dig the Bosch motor. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. Is this a review for ants? Shimano said August was the best. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Yeah but who needs all that power? The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. 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